Paper size (F100, F180...) and how to manage digitally (DOUGA)

Hello guys, I came across a “problem” I didn’t see coming. Working at 1920 x 1080 at 300dpi and on a tiny character I had the bad surprise that at that resolution cleaning with vector line is impossible.
Apparently with paper, there are many differents sizes from F20 to F260.
It makes sense now that when you have tiny characters you draw in larger paper that is shrinked in compositing :wink:
Here is a thread from AniPages explaining the different papers.
https://www.pelleas.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=873&start=15
Advice from Arifumi Imai

In Clip Studio Paint, keeping your paper at 1920x1080 and exploding dpi to 1200dpi is not enough.
You have to draw those cuts larger.
So, professionnals working with Clip Studio Paint, I am more than interested in the best method to do that. Thanks in advance.

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Some clarifications regarding my previous statements:

Anime studios typically work in paper, therefore the pipeline is catered to paper specifically. The 2340x1655px number is actually the typical scan resolution for paper sakuga at 200dpi. Each studio has their own inhouse template for digital use, but because each cut would be printed out, checked, and scanned back in, the resolution of the template actually doesn’t matter as long as its consistent (this is also why studios will supply you with their own template). I haven’t worked in anime for very long so I don’t know what a completely digital studio would use for their resolution.

The issue with re-scaling the entire canvas is the following: when downsizing, the lines and details became inconsistent with other cuts using default resolutions, compositors also don’t know how to composite the scene because the resolution became different from what they are expecting (imagine if every other cut is in 1920x1080 and suddenly one cut is 3840x2160), and its something that can cause confusion to the next person handling your cut (in the case of working professionally).

You really don’t have to worry too much about extremely small details, its not something people necessarily notice. I’ve only personally see 150-200% up-scaling being used on crowd drawings and very faraway characters, unless the faces became too meguca, its generally advised not to abuse up-scaling. Sometimes there are instructions in the settei on how to simplify details when it became too small, but in general its up to the animators.

Talking about different size paper (20f to 260f)… As far as I know, I’ve never seen non-standard size paper being used for production, people typically tape two or more pieces of paper together if they need to draw larger (although there are nothing stopping them from using larger paper, I reckon its not a common practice).

In practical usage, 20f to 260f refer mostly to the scaling of the camera frame. Because the size of the pegholes (tap) must be consistent for the sake of alignment, and the pegholes are within the template, the size of the template has to always be 100f regardless of the size of the camera and the drawing space

^ You can take the above layout as an example of what I’m trying to say.

Camerawork is very sensitive, so there are templates on what the camera frame would look like from 20f to 150f and onward. Which is why sometimes you see charts like these.

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Many thanks for this more precise reply and for your time. Sorry if I quoted wrong.
Coming myself from the comic book industry where 1200dpi is king and we end working on pages of 14000x10000 px at least the animation resolution standards are somewhat vague for me.
But it is making more sense than yesterday ha, ha.
Thanks again.

Bit of a clarification on dpi and resolution.
The dpi setting means nothing when you work purely digitally and don’t plan on exporting certain parts of a file into another CSP, PS or other file. A document that has a resolution of 1920x1080 will have the same amount of pixels/details at 140dpi and 1200dpi. This is the exact reason most picture editing software automatically multiplies your documents pixel dimensions if you set the dpi higher.

Also, I don’t know about the traditions in Belgium, but 14000x10000 and 1200dpi is really overkill for comics. If the comic’s print size is around B4 or smaller, 300-400dpi or a pixel resolution of somewhere around 4000x2000 is far enough, any more detail than that won’t appear on the printed material anyway.

As for your question, I usually work in 4k resolution. So the cropped resolution is 3840x2160. This pretty much always allows for sufficient detail, and when used in a 1080p work allows for enough space to draw larger scenes for camera movement and such.

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For info only : In Europe, the line art is made digitally at 1200dpi (or scanned at that size if original art is made on paper) and the colors from 300dpi to 450dpi. Commonly, the black pass is printed at 1200dpi and the colors (cyan, magenta and yellow) at the less resolution. In the case when colors or special effects are added to the black line, then line and colors are merged and printed at 450dpi. This is more common nowadays. Nevertheless, colorists receives the pages at 1200 dpi even if they work at 450dpi.
A basic page would be 23cm x 30cmm at 1200dpi (10724px x 14268 px)… There are books with larger size :wink:
The lettering is made at 1200dpi also.

Thanks about the 4K resolution note. Always interesting.

Not in Europe, in Belgium.

I’m also from Europe (Hungary) and here we usually don’t print comics that large (the comic business is also much smaller than in Belgium, sadly). Also, printing the line art at a higher resolution is really pointless in the case of digital printing. In the case of offset printing, I get the reason although the difference at the 23x30 cm size is still marginal at best between 1200dpi and 450 dpi.

I studied printmaking, so I’m not talking from the air, 1200dpi is overkill for anything at or below A4 (especially with digital printing).

I understand that what you described is the set way there, but those high resolutions are still mostly pointless or at best bring minuscule improvements.

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Yes. I’m talking about Belgium and France indeed. I agree that sometimes you don’t really see the difference when the book is printed at 1200dpi or 450dpi. My 3 last books have been printed at 450dpi. But I keep working at 1200dpi by default.
The comic business in France and Belgium is quite important but the books are really difficult to export. And it ends to be very very crowdy.
Nothing to envy really.

Yeah, a crowded business is not the best, but here in Hungary, you are not able to make a living as a comic artist, at all. The whole comic market here is centered around imported, translated comics, pretty much nothing made in the country is released by publishers. You would have a better chance of making a living as a comic translator than an actual comic artist.